To Sudin….. I am not what you think I am. I always view fellow humans with kindness, and also all the creations of Allah are to be respected.

When I asked you not to call me ‘Thambi’ it is because the way you mention sounds not proper. You can call me Thambi if you talk to me in Tamil. When you write in English you should use an English word and so too when you are using the Malay language, then you should do that too. You sound provocative in the language you use.

I wish you well and hope that you feel the same way too.

When we discuss some topics, we should be more civil and not being angry. And also try to verify if what is said make sense or not. But from my observation is that you do not or refuse to understand what is said by us.

‘Besides the truth, what else but falsehood ?’ (Quran). God never err but humans always do. When our prophet (Muhammad) came, he brought no other book but only the Quran and he told us to follow ONLY the Quran. Is that difficult to understand? Follow the Words of God (Quran), the Living the Eternal.

Thank you Tun. God Bless

May I..
//BubblesSeptember 4, 2012 at 1:12 pm | Permalink
Salam Tun,
…..Quran 33: 56 ” Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace.”
ALLAH do not need us to tell him to confer his blessings on the Prophet !! ALLAH do not need us to tell him what to do!
The reason ALLAH commanded us to do so is because ALLAH want us to show our gratitude to the Prophet (s.a.w) for bringing to us the final message from ALLAH, and to keep the special bond between the Prophet and his ummah alive at all times!..//

1-I think you have quoted surah al Ahzab a no of times already to justify your salawat.And I think all of us ‘sesat’ people have tried to explain about the context of this surah just as numerous but either you have never read our comments or your mind is blocked completely.

2-Mungkin Tuan mahu merenung dan mempertimbang komen hidden secrets didalam post ini August 16, 2012 at 2:12 tentang isu selawat ini lagi sekali.

3-Baru baru ini saya telah menghadiri upacara akad nikah anak saudara saya di Johor elok habis saja acara, Tok kadi minta semua berselawat keatas nabi,berselawat lah mereka sambil bersalam2an sambil berpeluk2an anatara satu sama lain.Kemudian diwaktu petangnya bila rombongan lelaki sudah sampai untuk khenduri lagi sekali mereka membaca selawat berulang sampailah rombongan dah duduk di tempat masing2.

4-Apa ertinya semua ini ? Untok mengingati nabi yang MEMBAWA AlQuran kepada kita? Mengapakah mereka berselawat keatas nabi dan bukan berzikir dan mengucap terima kasih kepada Allah yang telah MEMBERI kitab itu pada kita? Allah hanya diingati supaya beliau memberi salam kepada Rasulullah..

5-Sejak beberapa abad kita juga berselawat keatas nabi secara sistematik didalam solat kita.Siapakah yang mengajarnya?Adakah rasulullah mengajarnya?Adakah rasulullah juga berselawat untuk dirinya sendiri?

6-Kalau rasulullah cuma mengingati Allah didalam solatnya mengapakah kita tidak mengikuti solat nabi kita?Bukan kah Nabi datang untuk menjadi ‘model’ kita?

7-Tahukah anda siapa yang sebenarnya mengajar kita berselawat keatas nabi didalam solat? Kalau nak tahu saya boleh beritahu.

8-Kita tidak mengatakan kita betul atau awak salah.Anda pun tahu banyak hadis yang palsu apakah tidak mungkin hadis yang menganjurkan selawat ini juga palsu.Kajilah apa saja dengan hati yang terbuka dan pilih pandangan yang terbaik(surah AzZumar) semoga kita mendapat petunjuk.

9-Kalau yakin 100% tidak ada apa salahnya dengan selawat ini buat sajalah seperti yang dah diamalkan.Allah SWT pun tahu kami cuma menyampaikan pandangan kami dengan ikhlas.Kalau ada hujah yang baik untuk menyokong berselawat, manalah tahu tuan sendiri boleh selamatkan aqidah kami seandainya tak berselawat hukumnya shirik.

10-Tuan2 berbaik sangkalah dengan kami. Demi Allah SWT yang maha pengasih dan penyayang kami ikhlas dan jujur dengan pandangan kami,dan kami tidak mewakili musuh2 Islam atau ajen zionis ke,sapa2 ke yg coba merosakkan aqidah sesiapa.

Terima kasih.

I wish to refer to abdulazizomar (30/08/12 @7:20pm).

Your statement, “To Sudin I would like to ask him to refrain from calling names like Thambi or what to someone else. Are we related by blood? I am not of the Indian origin.”
has made others to realise that you are a racist and seeking for glamour.

When ‘dtan’ referred ‘Iskandar Shah 2’ as ‘Bro Iskandar’ the latter seems to feel obliged. In fact Iskandar Shah 2 referred back to dtan as ‘bro’ as well.
I’ll be most surprised if you are to refuse or become angry to anyone referring you as ‘bro abdulazizomar’.
Of course ‘thambi’ is not glamorous. Even some Indians choose to refer ‘bro’ among themselves instead of thambi.

Since this is the second time you’ve tried to stop me referring you as ‘thambi’, you’ve shown to everyone that you’re a racist. I see no other reason that an Indian equivalent to ‘bro or brother’, which is English, is preferred.
Your preference of an English namesake and rejected/angry when a similar meaning Indian word is used on you put you as a racist of the high order.

Do not try to preach and mislead other readers when you have this deep racist feeling within you!

The damage which you & gang could possibly or have already caused to THE MUSLIM WORLD is limitless!
When you purportedly preach those unlawful narrow-minded belief and to continuously trying to cause uncertainties & ambiguities on Islamic matters, which is not just irresponsible, but all the kafirs are laughing and making questionable remarks about Islam.

I do not wish to speculate who and how much you’re paid by those kafirs to purposely create friction and/or misunderstanding among Muslims, which you will undoubtedly deny. For once, stop being a coward and let’s resolve the whole issue with a proper discussion, face to face.

We are still in month of Shawal so I guess it is not too late to wish you and your family ‘Selamat Hari Raya Aidil Fitri dan Maaf Zahir Batin’. I also wish to extend this greetings to all our Muslim brothers and sisters especially to Bro Wajaperak.

Tun, comments I had sent earlier were censored… I respect your decision. I hope this one will go through.

Abdul Aziz Omar :
“When some of our friends said about ‘Anti-Muhammadan’ it does not mean anti Muhammad, it means anti those who take Muhammad as their ‘god’, unconsciously. Like the Christians name themselves with the name of Christ (Isa). We are Muslims and not Muhammadans like some of you.

Quran 33: 56 ” Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace.”

ALLAH do not need us to tell him to confer his blessings on the Prophet !! ALLAH do not need us to tell him what to do!
The reason ALLAH commanded us to do so is because ALLAH want us to show our gratitude to the Prophet (s.a.w) for bringing to us the final message from ALLAH, and to keep the special bond between the Prophet and his ummah alive at all times!

Abdul Aziz Omar :

“When the Angels sujud to Adam, they were actually sujud to Allah because Allah commanded them to do it”

So how does by giving selawat or asking ALLAH to confer his blessing on the Prophet make us Muhamadans !!
Are we not just following ALLAH’s command just like the angels who followed ALLAH’s command to bow (show respect) to Adam (a.s).
Incidently, you did not mention that Iblis refused to obey ALLAH’s command, he rather be banished than to bow (show respect) to Adam (a.s). Are you not doing the same thing here??

Thank you for bringing me in your discussion on hadith. Just like a person who is made a defendant in a legal action, I have no choice but to respond

On your comments, on “muhammadan and muslim”, I personally don’t think its that important for discussion (others may differ) as islam needs to be practised as opposed to being put as labels. So I’ll stop there

In 44:59, Allah said: “O you who have believed, obey Allah and obey the Messenger and those in authority among you. And if you disagree over anything, refer it to Allah and the Messenger, if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is the best [way] and best in result.”

On your discussion on the status of hadith as a source of law, I firmly disagree i.e. I do believe hadith as a source of law AND as example of how we conduct our daily affairs. But, I do agree with you that hadiths can NEVER contradict the Quran. Any of the so-called “hadith” that contradicts the Quran is in fact not hadith and MUST be rejected. As for your point that “Hadiths could easily misguide the believers and can be very lethal and poisonous to our correct understanding of the religion of Muhammad”, I don’t think you are correct to say that. The reason is that a lot of the times, what the prophet say or do must always be understood in the context at the time. Just like the Quran, some hadiths are can be applied literally, and some cannot. That is the role of the Ulama’ i.e. they can be consulted on the validly of such hadith and the context behind it before we make up our mind and follow them. It is not an excuse for muslim make a decision whether or not to follow them just because we do not understand them.

I do not know what you have discussed with the others in this post about “hadith explaining the quran”, but some hadiths do explain the Quran but not all. Some verses in the Quran are very clear and can be read literally while some must be read and understood based the context. Some hadiths are there based on the general principles based on the Quran. But no hadith/sunnah of the Prophet can ever contradict the Quran.

On your challenge to show me that “the Quran is not enough without the Hadiths”… If we are psychic enough to know everything, then yes it is enough. There are principles behind those verses in the Quran. The hadiths may provide elaborations on those principles. On that challenge, I can think of one i.e. the eating of fish. I hope those who “rejects hadith” don’t eat fish because IF we follow 5:1-3, eating fish will surely be haram. It is only the hadith that allows us to eat fish Even the description of how the lashes are not in the Quran, but the hadith provides further details Without the hadith, people may be misconceived to lash convicts using the lashes that is carried out currently in Malaysia. One lash “malaysian style” will ruin and tear your skin apart. Can we imagine if we lash 100 times? That is why I really do not understand why some people think Hudud is barbaric or cruel.

On the hadith on punishment for zina which I have quoted, I admit there are khilafs in whether the stoning can be considered as Hudud or taa’zir. The reason for the khilaf is because the Quran only provides for 100 lashes and only the hadith provides for stoning. Personally, since I accept hadith as a source of law, the punishment should be based on whether the offender is married or not. There is a reason for the the harsher punishment for married persons who committed zina as opposed to those we are not married. Islam place a lot of weight in preserving the sanctity of marriage and family. Zina committed by a married person is serious as it adversely affects his/her married partner. For unmarried person, it is likely that there will be no “victim”. Thus, the verse on 100 lashes can be distinguished from the application on stoning. It is contradictory to the Quran as there is valid reasoning for the introduction of stoning. And I have never encountered the Hadith ‘Bersikap sombong terhadap yang angkuh adalah satu sadekah’. Such hadith does not sound like Islam to me (unless its quoted out of context) and thus, it can be rejected. That is my opinion

On the issue on amputation as punishment for theft, I disagree with you as the the context in which 5:38 is “amputation” but for verse 12:31 is “cut leaving a mark/scar”. Similarly verse. 5:33 also refers to amputation. We have to read the passage based on the Arabic language according to how an arab would read it. Translations of the Quran can sometimes be misleading, but it does not mean that we cannot use it as a source of law I believe u know that not all thefts are punishable by amputation based on plenty of sound hadiths.

For the record, the Quran is not the words of the prophet. It is the word of God uttered through the mouth of the prophet in a language known to man. Whether you believe in hadith or not, I have no doubt it is our obligation to spread His word. There are passages in the Quran like 3:132, 4:69, 4:80, 4:115, 47:34 and etc where Allah commanded Muslims to obey Allah and the Prophet and thus, we must also follow his examples too. None of his examples can ever contradict the Quran. Whether the narration on his examples by his companions and other scholars are correct, false or weak is a separate issue.

As for the rest of the issues, I don’t think it is addressed to me, so I leave it to the others to answer.

May peace be upon u all.

To fzal, zulkiflee and Sudin…… I would like to clear some points that you have brought in this forum.

When some of our friends said about ‘Anti-Muhammadan’ it does not mean anti Muhammad, it means anti those who take Muhammad as their ‘god’, unconsciously. Like the Christians name themselves with the name of Christ (Isa). We are Muslims and not Muhammadans like some of you.

And when we say that we do not believe in the Hadiths, that means that we do not take them (hadiths) to be a source of law in our declaration of faith in God’s religion. The Hadiths are alright as long as you do not take them to be a guiding light. As I have said earlier that Hadiths could easily misguide the believers and can be very be very lethal and poisonous to our correct understanding of the religion of Muhammad. They are simply (and proven) to be very misleading. Some Hadiths, though sounds very innocent could still be very wrong.

Many Hadiths contradicts the Quran. I challenge you to show me that the Quran is not enough without the Hadiths. You people like to say that the Hadiths explain the Quran, while Allah (Quran) repeatedly says that Quran is fully detailed and enough for you!! Like the story (Hadiths) mentioned by fzal about the Prophet’s punishment to that woman who did the zina. That Hadiths just cannot be true, because it is contradictory to the Quran. And also the Hadith that you mentioned ‘Bersikap sombong terhadap yang angkuh adalah satu sadekah’. This also cannot be true, since the Quran ask you to forgive those who are different from you.

The punishment for thief is never cutting the hand or hands (according to the Quran). ‘The thief, male or female, you shall mark (cut???) their hands as a punishment for their crime, and to serve as an example from God. God is Almighty , Most Wise’ (Quran 5:38). The same words are used in 12: 31 regarding the story of Nabi Yusuf ‘…When they (the women) saw him (Yusuf), they so admired him, that they cut their hands……’ . So do you think that those women really could possibly cut their own hands???? So the lessons here is to ‘mark’ the hands and not cut them !!!! Also if you count the surah and verses numbers of 5:38 and 12:31 the sum is the same.

When the Angels sujud to Adam, they were actually sujud to Allah because Allah commanded them to do it.

Also about doing the solat while walking or riding is found in the Quran 2:239 ‘Under unusual circumstances (fear of something), you may pray while walking or riding.’…..

To Sudin I would like to ask him to refrain from calling names like Thambi or what to someone else. Are we related by blood? I am not of the Indian origin. For sure I am not your brother except in humanity.

When our Prophet (the final prophet) brought the Quran to the world, the people of his time refused to believe him. When you say you love the Prophet, how could you say that you do not agree with him (Quran). ‘You have no other mission, but to deliver the Quran (message)….’ 3:20;5:67;13:40;15:57-65; and many more.

Thank you Tun.

Thanks for your comments on my views. Like I said, I don’t consider myself an ulama’ so if there is anything I said that contradicts the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet, consider them taken back.

On your presumption that I have already concluded it to be a case of “wrongly accussed”, that depends on what you mean by “wrongly accussed”. If you mean, “I already concluded that he was not guilty but still accussed, then NO your presumption is wrong. But, if you say that I have concluded that the accusation itself is wrong in the eyes of Islam, then YES your presumption is correct.

With regards to evidence, since Islam requires a very high standard of proof as stated in my earlier post. If the judge wasn’t convinced under our current law of evidence, I surely doubt he will be convicted under islamic law of evidence.

I beg to differ on your statement saying that the vast majority of the people thought otherwise. Quoting something we think is from the majority cannot be acceptable as I have my friends thinking that he is not guilty too. Besides, the right and just decision does not and should not depend on what the majority thinks. And to say that a person lies in court is serious accussation as lying in court is a serious contempt. If you have proof, please show it to me. I’m always prepared to change my mind if you can provide me the reasons for doing so.

You see, Rasulullah SAW have taught us how to deal with adulterers. Someone who committed adultery came to him and asked him to carry out the punishment. Rasulullah made efforts and tried to avoid him as Islam is not really a religion that focuses on the punishment. He asked the adulterer to go away as Islam is not a religion that requires us to confess our sins to saints, rulers or prophets. Islam is a religion that allows us to repent straight to Allah. Tak boleh juga, rasullulah tanya macam2 untuk sedapkan hati baginda yang pesalah tersebut tidak sebenarnya melakukan perkara tersebut. “boleh jadi raba-raba sahaja”, “boleh jadi cium sahaja” etc. but the offender insisted that he did commit such an offence and Rasullullah had to carry out the punishment. That is no where near what happen in the case of Anwar.

On your question on “what will be the punishment for those who don’t know the actual situation however choose to blindly support Anwar if truthfully he actually did those things? They can be categorised as being in collusion with Anwar!”, I am not sure what is the punishment for that honestly. Some of them are too fanatical because of their political ideologies. For me, that is really not relevant here. I couldn’t care less what his supporters say. They are not the judiciary. The prosecution failed to prove the case and thus Anwar is innocent. Whether he really did those acts, I don’t know and I don’t really care as its none of my business. Whatever he actually did is between him and Allah. Sebabnya the charge was “sodomy” with consent of the other (so its suka sama suka). I’m sure you and me as Muslims believe in Allah and the Day of Judgment right? The Quran says avoid suspicion, so why would I waste my time going against it

So come, let us go back to the teachings of the Quran and the Prophet. Islam itu sangat indah. So lets make an effort individually to set the right environment so that the implementation of Hudud will not be questioned.

May peace be upon you sudin.

1. Lelaki dan wanita setuju makan sedap yang haram bersama-sama, tetapi wanita saja dihukum tembak.

2. Ternampak seperti ‘trend’ terkini pulak, kerana di negara kita pun ada orang lelaki yang terbela diatas penzinaannya.

Wallahu’alam

Yes, I have read the constitution. Ok. Let’s talk about the issue on the use of the name “Allah”. Firstly, there is nothing in the constitution that says non-muslims are prohibited from preaching their religion to Muslims. Its not under our constitution, but under state legislation

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with using the word “Allah” as a name by a non-Muslim. We have to remember that he is the one and only. The three “abrahamic” religion originated from the fact that He is the one one true god. It is the christian concept of trinity is what is wrong according to us Muslims. We need to be able to distinguish that properly.

Sometimes being to legalistic is not good for the muslims in Malaysia. I know we have statutes and the law but we have to look at it from a broader perspective. How can we attract non-Muslims if we ourselves are not convinced of our beliefs. It is wrong for us to equate their use of the word “Allah” as being an ulterior motive of converting muslims. And how a “non-muslim majority country” would react in a similar situation should not determine how we Muslims should react in such situation. Rasulullah and the Quran has taught us to have no prejudice and avoid suspicion! Kalau sayang Nabi, we have to follow cara nabi.

There is too much prejudice going on instigated by Muslims ourselves. “Baca bible sikit, boleh jadi kristian”; “Minum air dari orang non-Muslims boleh jadi kristian”; … Ini semua perkara-perkara yang mengarut dan tak masuk akal. In fact, ia bertentangan dengan ajaran Islam itu sendiri.

We Muslims have really got to move on and stop pointing fingers at others our own misfortunes. Instead of being paranoid about it, let’s look at ourselves first. We should prepare ourselves mentally for anything put before us. If we are worried that our children may get converted just because of this (though I think this is just us being paranoid tak tentu pasal), Islam tidak mengajar kita terima semua yang ada dalam sesuatu buku atau dilaman web secara bulat-bulat. Ini kerana tiada orang yang maksum seperti para rasul. Even the works of a grand mufti may be rejected on grounds that it contradicts the Quran and the teachings of the Prophet. Imam Shafie sendiri kata kalau ada sesuatu yang dikatakannya dalam kitabnya itu bercanggah dengan al-Quran dan Hadith, dia tarik balik kenyataan beliau yang bercanggah tersebut. Jadi atas sebab itu, it is our duty to educate our children to think before accepting anything blindly. For me, the name is really not an issue. It is their concept that is the problem. So, if we think their concept of God is wrong, it is our duty to educate ourselves and tell them that. But it is really not an excuse for us to ban a non-Muslim who believes that “Allah” is the name of God from using such a magnificent name. Lemah sangat ke Islam ni sampai kena ban here and there? I don’t think so. I don’t know how you think about it but Islam does not need such a “protection”. In fact, it is more damaging and embarrassing to have such a ban.

So, come. lets go back to the way of the prophet. Educate ourselves and spread the word of Allah.

May peace be upon you.